Application classed as late
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Re: Application classed as late
Only the GS in Warks ask for this extra evidence. All other schools, which are the vast majority, don't. Making all do it would add a huge amount of admin to an already under resourced LA. As a previous poster has already said, it's the GS who want this, no the LA.
JD
JD
Re: Application classed as late
In Bucks everyone has to provide it!
Re: Application classed as late
Ok, I'll try again - everyone in Warks has to provide their council tax reference number as proof of address as part of the CAF application. Those applying for GS then have to provide additional proof, probably as there is a greater risk of fraud for GS places. This is quite new, I think, certainly didn't do it for DS.
JD
JD
Re: Application classed as late
Everyone in Bucks has to provide additional evidence e.g. utility bills - the OP should have double and triple checked the Admissions booklet.
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kenyancowgirl
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Re: Application classed as late
Which probably makes sense in an opt out county. Warks is dealing with much smaller GS numbers. It is unfortunate in the OPs case but, assuming the vast majority of parents applying to the GS's did send their address proof in, they were able to find the relative information.
Re: Application classed as late
I can see only 4 reasons why a DP would not send proof of address:
1. They are lying about where they live.
2. They don't care enough about their DD's education enough to bother reading the relevant documentation.
3. Genuine human error - they forgot to send it or misunderstood the documentation.
4. They had got two older DC through the system when this proof of address was not required and so were not expecting to have to send it. They did not receive the crucial letter requesting the information. They do read paperwork carefully but not FAQs about moving house unless they intend to move house.
My reason is the 4th one.
Warwickshire Admissions have made it very clear to me that it was not their responsibility to let me know what I had to send and that all the information is on various websites.However as they are the main form of communication between schools and parents once the 11+ test is sat I believe it was their responsibility to get the crucial letter to parents and to inform parents how to proceed if they are unlucky enough to receive it by putting the crucial deadline date in the main part of the paperwork which was clearly relevant to all parents.
What I find most upsetting about their response is their implication that I am stupid and/ or wilfully negligent.
I have to say that I am offended that some of the responses on this forum seem to be implying the same. This lack of solidarity surprises me as I posted on this forum genuinely feeling quite desperate and looking for advice. I also wanted to see if there were other DPs who had not received the crucial letter. I expected more solidarity in that all of us have been through this stressful experience of preparing a DC, reading mountains of paperwork and applying and then the agonising wait until March 1st.
My thanks does go to those of you who have tried to offer comfort and advice and most importantly to put themselves in my position.
1. They are lying about where they live.
2. They don't care enough about their DD's education enough to bother reading the relevant documentation.
3. Genuine human error - they forgot to send it or misunderstood the documentation.
4. They had got two older DC through the system when this proof of address was not required and so were not expecting to have to send it. They did not receive the crucial letter requesting the information. They do read paperwork carefully but not FAQs about moving house unless they intend to move house.
My reason is the 4th one.
Warwickshire Admissions have made it very clear to me that it was not their responsibility to let me know what I had to send and that all the information is on various websites.However as they are the main form of communication between schools and parents once the 11+ test is sat I believe it was their responsibility to get the crucial letter to parents and to inform parents how to proceed if they are unlucky enough to receive it by putting the crucial deadline date in the main part of the paperwork which was clearly relevant to all parents.
What I find most upsetting about their response is their implication that I am stupid and/ or wilfully negligent.
I have to say that I am offended that some of the responses on this forum seem to be implying the same. This lack of solidarity surprises me as I posted on this forum genuinely feeling quite desperate and looking for advice. I also wanted to see if there were other DPs who had not received the crucial letter. I expected more solidarity in that all of us have been through this stressful experience of preparing a DC, reading mountains of paperwork and applying and then the agonising wait until March 1st.
My thanks does go to those of you who have tried to offer comfort and advice and most importantly to put themselves in my position.
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kenyancowgirl
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Re: Application classed as late
Ah, ok, so you don't necessarily want what we think is actually going to happen, more sympathy and outrage to your position?! I think my posts have made it clear that I suspect you will be fine with your DDs score, but, you'll have a hard time blaming the council when the vast majority of parents have read/found the information.
On a public forum, where you ask for advice you are going to get the rough with the smooth. The reality is, the majority of parents (of first born, second born, third born etc) children have done what they had to do, so the council would assume you would too. Those parents assumedly read all the information, got the address letter - the council would assume you did too, and unfortunately you can't prove you didn't get a letter, if you see what I mean? Send them your proof, hope that you get an offer, in the meantime consider appealing. But don't get offended that people don't fall over themselves to commiserate - whilst you might feel you are number 4, many others fall into the other three categories in our experience, especially 1) fraudulent addresses - which is one of the reasons this whole process is now demanded by the schools! By necessity I am cautious to this sort of query - being sympathetic to the situation you are in does not mean not giving you a true picture of the process - it might be a hard cheese circumstance but, with your DDs score in the Eastern Area, you may well be OK.
On a public forum, where you ask for advice you are going to get the rough with the smooth. The reality is, the majority of parents (of first born, second born, third born etc) children have done what they had to do, so the council would assume you would too. Those parents assumedly read all the information, got the address letter - the council would assume you did too, and unfortunately you can't prove you didn't get a letter, if you see what I mean? Send them your proof, hope that you get an offer, in the meantime consider appealing. But don't get offended that people don't fall over themselves to commiserate - whilst you might feel you are number 4, many others fall into the other three categories in our experience, especially 1) fraudulent addresses - which is one of the reasons this whole process is now demanded by the schools! By necessity I am cautious to this sort of query - being sympathetic to the situation you are in does not mean not giving you a true picture of the process - it might be a hard cheese circumstance but, with your DDs score in the Eastern Area, you may well be OK.
Re: Application classed as late
Sympathy would have been nice but was not my reason for my initial post.
Outrage was also not expected although I certainly feel outrage myself.
I was actually hoping for advice which from a transactional analysis point of view I hoped might be delivered in an adult- adult manner rather than parent- child.
I also wanted to see if there were other DPs in my position but so far that would seem not to be the case.
Maybe I hoped for human empathy but I suppose to achieve that maybe one really does have to ' Walk a mile in someone else's shoes.'
Outrage was also not expected although I certainly feel outrage myself.
I was actually hoping for advice which from a transactional analysis point of view I hoped might be delivered in an adult- adult manner rather than parent- child.
I also wanted to see if there were other DPs in my position but so far that would seem not to be the case.
Maybe I hoped for human empathy but I suppose to achieve that maybe one really does have to ' Walk a mile in someone else's shoes.'
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kenyancowgirl
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- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:59 pm
Re: Application classed as late
To be fair, Sosalou, you have been given advice, at the beginning, by hm, me and others - I've read it back and think it was delivered fairly and I think pretty empathically - we understand the situation you got yourself into (no, we haven't walked a mile in your shoes) - you are upset with yourself - it was an error that could have been avoided - and was avoided by the majority of parents - it's unfortunate, but doesn't seem irreversible in the context of your DDs score.
To break down the advice as I see it in, hopefully, an adult to adult manner that is understandable: Send in your proof of address (which I hope you have done by now), and wait. There are several possible outcomes: 1) You get an offer on March 1st - possible, but not immediately probably. 2) You don't get an offer on March 1st - more likely - but then you a) ask to be added to the waiting list and b) might get an offer soon after with the score which is pretty high in Eastern GS terms but c) you also notify that you would like to appeal. You then have a few months to plan your appeal (based on academic evidence of your DD - not hard as you have her high score, but other stuff from school also useful and a nod to the extenuating circumstance that you did not read/comply with the bit about sending in proof of address. Take some screen shots of where the information was, for example) Your appeal would be based on the former, not the latter, however. The reality is, none of us expect it to get to that stage as, assumedly you do live in Eastern Priority Area and did from the relevant date, and have a high score that you would pretty much be top of the wait list.
To break down the advice as I see it in, hopefully, an adult to adult manner that is understandable: Send in your proof of address (which I hope you have done by now), and wait. There are several possible outcomes: 1) You get an offer on March 1st - possible, but not immediately probably. 2) You don't get an offer on March 1st - more likely - but then you a) ask to be added to the waiting list and b) might get an offer soon after with the score which is pretty high in Eastern GS terms but c) you also notify that you would like to appeal. You then have a few months to plan your appeal (based on academic evidence of your DD - not hard as you have her high score, but other stuff from school also useful and a nod to the extenuating circumstance that you did not read/comply with the bit about sending in proof of address. Take some screen shots of where the information was, for example) Your appeal would be based on the former, not the latter, however. The reality is, none of us expect it to get to that stage as, assumedly you do live in Eastern Priority Area and did from the relevant date, and have a high score that you would pretty much be top of the wait list.
Re: Application classed as late
I am very grateful for the advice that has been offered to me on this forum and I have completely understood it.
As for what I feel upset about only someone who has walked a mile in my shoes would know.
So for the record I am not upset with myself. I am upset with a system which I believe has failed me. I am upset that I did not receive the letter and I am upset that the statement which would have helped avoid the situation I now find myself in was located in a section of the letter which did not apply to me. I do not believe I got myself into this position but rather was put in this position by the failure of the postal system and the location of the statement. I am not in the position of the majority of parents because I assume the majority of parents did receive the letter.
As for the suggestion that I have made an error in this whole sorry business. The only error I feel I have made was in hoping that a forum such as this would offer advice in a kinder manner without veiled criticisms.
I fully understand that the next few months are not going to be straightforward for my DD and myself. I also understand that March 1st is unlikely to produce the long awaited good news we had hoped for and that we will have to play a stressful waiting game and possibly go down the route of appeal. This is a bitter enough pill to have to swallow especially when I feel strongly that this has come about through no fault of my own or my DD. I think receiving the letter was unfortunate but to be penalised for failing to read a statement which was placed in a section of a letter which did not apply to me - this I consider to be grossly unfair.
I do not think it hurts to be kind and I think it is possible to deliver advice in a way which respects the situation the recipient of the advice has found themselves in and tries to take into account how they are feeling. I really do appreciate those of you who chose to respond to me in that way.
As for what I feel upset about only someone who has walked a mile in my shoes would know.
So for the record I am not upset with myself. I am upset with a system which I believe has failed me. I am upset that I did not receive the letter and I am upset that the statement which would have helped avoid the situation I now find myself in was located in a section of the letter which did not apply to me. I do not believe I got myself into this position but rather was put in this position by the failure of the postal system and the location of the statement. I am not in the position of the majority of parents because I assume the majority of parents did receive the letter.
As for the suggestion that I have made an error in this whole sorry business. The only error I feel I have made was in hoping that a forum such as this would offer advice in a kinder manner without veiled criticisms.
I fully understand that the next few months are not going to be straightforward for my DD and myself. I also understand that March 1st is unlikely to produce the long awaited good news we had hoped for and that we will have to play a stressful waiting game and possibly go down the route of appeal. This is a bitter enough pill to have to swallow especially when I feel strongly that this has come about through no fault of my own or my DD. I think receiving the letter was unfortunate but to be penalised for failing to read a statement which was placed in a section of a letter which did not apply to me - this I consider to be grossly unfair.
I do not think it hurts to be kind and I think it is possible to deliver advice in a way which respects the situation the recipient of the advice has found themselves in and tries to take into account how they are feeling. I really do appreciate those of you who chose to respond to me in that way.
