Posh & Posher

[sherry_d]

So CM do you see Mr Balls being a better Chancellor than George and "more in touch" with the people?

At the end off the day we are voting for these "toff" boys so whats the big deal? I think the British people secretly want these posh people to be their leaders otherwise they would have voted otherwise. There was a guy they showed there from "humble" beginning who was trounced by these toff in a working class area, why oh why if we really loothe these toffs?

[scarlett]

Society remains segregated because the working classes (in general) refuse to mix with other classes, not the other way around!

Tippo I agree with plenty of what you have said but this? Really? Come on!

I'm not sure what you mean either....I don't know any "posh " people who want to socialise with "poor " people and vice versa...I think human nature is such you want to stick to your own kind.....

I also think that politicians.....from whatever walk of life develop their own agenda once they enter that inner sanctum !!

[Chelmsford mum]

Well said WFG!

I disagree that a government representative of the people would be a good thing. Let's face it, the general state of knowledge and intelligence of hoi polloi is pretty low, we'd soon end up in an awful mess if government really reflected modern society. It is surely much more important that our political leaders are well educated than that they come from any particular social mix.

Hello LLL,
I thought this thread might draw you out.

You seem to be confusing an academic education with intelligence. I would prefer that our leaders understood that to be immediately taken off benefit when you gain work is utterly unhelpful.You get paid monthly and often can't afford the fares or have decent working clothes.There needs to be an overlap of benefits into work but knowing how to translate latin does not prepare one for this.

I count myself as the "hoi polloi" but humbly believe that I could teach Cameron/Clegg as thing or two about why we have long term benefit seekers and it's not because all of them are lazy.No doubt Cammy/Clegg would undoubtedly outstrip me in their educational qualifications.

As regards the deficit - yes labour did a lot wrong but there was a global recession and as LFH says it was the greed of the City , egged on by the complacency of the people , that got us into this mess.I do not think the poorest should pay but the richest give a tiny percentage or their vast wealth.(Please google robinhoodtax.org - a growing movement with international support)

WFG, Why do you find it so difficult to admit that wealth and privilege removes you from the "common perspective?" As you know I was the first in my family to go to Uni and had a truly working class background.Not so O.H. However ,as you know, he does something highly vocational and our income places us at just above national average levels and that is with me working some of every day.(more when little one gets older) Our choice and I wouldn't change it.
However I would be utterly naive if I suggested that my three girls understood fully the plight of the poor/disadvantaged. I might ,but they have had a more genteel, if not so rich upbringing.They expect to go to Uni and are surrounded but the middle classes.They do not know what it is to not have a dinner for sure in the evening or have mould growing up their bedroom walls.
Your boys WFG, have you as a mum, but second hand stories will not make them fully understand or empathise with the poor.
I am concerned when my daughters refer to the people who stand outside our local co op at 9 pm as "chavs".They know this and now it is a standing joke that my 15 year old says "I had to walk past the Ch....people who mummy says may be more socially disadvantaged "
The point being privilege does blind us. That's why, LLL ,we need educated people in leadership who fully represent all backgrounds.Government itself is truly impoverished without it and serves us poorly.

Sherry - yes I do believe Labour has a greater cross section of society.They need more but the Tories have far less.The point of the programme was that we need an educational system that equips young, educated working class people to be eligible for leadership in this country.

Will return later - dinner to cook for 7 and only the vegetables are from scratch

[80's girl]

At the end off the day we are voting for these "toff" boys so whats the big deal? I think the British people secretly want these posh people to be their leaders otherwise they would have voted otherwise. There was a guy they showed there from "humble" beginning who was trounced by these toff in a working class area, why oh why if we really loothe these toffs?

Mr Cameron actually went to great lengths to play down his parties "poshness" in order to appeal to a wider electorate when campaigning for the election. He tries hard to portray himself as a normal kind of guy who is in touch with us ordinary folk. Perhaps Mr Osborne should follow his example and go sking in Scotland next year
rather than Klosters!

I truly believe that when these current cuts really start to hit home they will be a huge backlash against this government which will be exacerbated by their apparent wealth and privilege. Yes any party implementing these cuts including a Labour one, would experience a backlash, but this will be worse. If they were really remotely in touch with us ordinary folk they would slow down a bit!

I am actually genuinely scared of how my family will get through it and for my boys futures

[Chelmsford mum]

1)I truly believe that when these current cuts really start to hit home they will be a huge backlash against this government which will be exacerbated by their apparent wealth and privilege. Yes any party implementing these cuts including a Labour one, would experience a backlash, but this will be worse. If they were really remotely in touch with us ordinary folk they would slow down a bit!

2)I am actually genuinely scared of how my family will get through it and for my boys futures

[/quote]


Point 1 - I so hope so.
Point 2 - I so agree
Point 3 - Hello and glad you are here, always feel rather outnumbered except for one or two.

[Waiting_For_Godot]

CM, I apologise profusely for having a rant today. I'd had an irritating week mainly because family of mine are getting it in the neck because of where DS1 is going.

As you all know I grew up in a single parent family and we were well below the bread line. The environment I grew up in (not my home but peers) taught me to hate rich people. Rich to me was anyone who owned a car let alone a billionaire, and this was and still is the mentality of many. I then moved through the income scales and have met all classes, even those in line to the throne. All classes have their flaws but my childhood and current experiences are of the working classes still being entrenched in bitterness. The fact of the matter is that we are all jolly lucky in this country. I grew up in a home where my mother did not smoke or drink and yet she still could not send us to school because we had no shoes. There is no one nowadays in this situation (unless they spend their money on fags and booze) and I think we all need to take a step back and realise how fortunate we are. I dearly hope DH never loses his job but if that were the case we would still be looked after. I really feel the moaning and the blame has to stop. We are all jolly lucky and, of course, some are luckier than most.

As for will my children ever understand. Well everyone in their family is salt of the earth, terraced house or council house except for us so they do see it regularly. They have been spat at and chased outside their grandmother's flat - good experience for their future lives as Old Etonians - and without going into detail it is only in the last few years that our fortune as turned. DS1 spent his first three years in an over-crowded council flat shared by three adults. Can many on here say that there children had a similar start? Yes, they have never gone hungry but how many people's kids have gone hungry nowadays?

I am happy for toffs to run the country. They are clearly not in it for the money and they also don't have an agenda to persecute a differing class.

P.S. I hate talking politics with you CM. Can we make a pact never to discuss politics online or in person ever again?

[sherry_d]

The problems is that lower expectations are expected on most people/ children. It saddens me seeing them thinking St Andrews is out of their bounds. We need a society with high expectations not one moaning all the time that they cant do things because they are poor working class. I blame the government for having done too much for people and now they want more I personally think the govt does a LOT for people and I am not sure if thats always positive.

[Chelmsford mum]

CM, I apologise profusely for having a rant today. I'd had an irritating week mainly because family of mine are getting it in the neck because of where DS1 is going.

The fact of the matter is that we are all jolly lucky in this country. I grew up in a home where my mother did not smoke or drink and yet she still could not send us to school because we had no shoes. There is no one nowadays in this situation (unless they spend their money on fags and booze).

Sorry I disagree. You know I am well connected politically and those I know in MP's casework find this exact situation with asylum seekers, children with special needs, large families on lower level income support - whatever the "Daily Fail" might sayAs for will my children ever understand. Well everyone in their family is salt of the earth, terraced house or council house except for us so they do see it regularly. They have been spat at and chased outside their grandmother's flat - good experience for their future lives as Old Etonians - and without going into detail it is only in the last few years that our fortune as turned. DS1 spent his first three years in an over-crowded council flat shared by three adults. Can many on here say that there children had a similar start? Yes, they have never gone hungry but how many people's kids have gone hungry nowadays?

WFG - I have similar stories of my children's early lives but they forget and melt into the culture of their peers.I wish it were not so, but they need constant prompting once they hit their teens and the more privileged the background at that point , the more they need prompting.As you know, my eldest(ironically) was spat at, sticks/etc thrown at her - "snob, boffin" and lots worse for being posh.(ha ha)
I am happy for toffs to run the country. They are clearly not in it for the money and they also don't have an agenda to persecute a differing class.

As to the last point - when you have money - the pursuit of power in itself is enticing.

Look - I am not saying D.C is evil but I am saying he needs a cabinet around him that is a greater cross section of society.There is no hope of social justice without that - I truly believe that.I truly believe that a Tory Govt will never seek that.

We will have to agree to differ I think.All part of the cultural exchange that is the joy of this site.

[Chelmsford mum]

P.S. I hate talking politics with you CM. Can we make a pact never to discuss politics online or in person ever again?

Why - I still love people I disagree with.Otherwise I could never cope with my in laws

[Waiting_For_Godot]

But I have working class insecurities that if you argue with me you won't love me!