How many hours did your child study for 11+ preparation
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Re: How many hours did your child study for 11+ preparation
Ours did one hour a week at a tutor and about two hours homework - up to three papers maximum, probably more usually two papers. I don't think I ever saw them do four papers and I'd have thought it a bit steep if they had. They didn't work every day - in fact our daughter normally did her entire week's work on a Friday afternoon (our son dragged it out more!). I've always assumed that when people talk about children doing 4 papers a day they must be talking about Bond 10-min papers!
I can't believe any child needs to work 10+ hours a week. I've always said that I don't believe the anecdotes of overtutored children struggling at grammar school, but I'm sure that anyone who needed 10 hours tuition a week to get in would indeed struggle. It certainly isn't necessary to do 10 hours a week to cover the Y6 syllabus early, most children likely to get a place at GS (in B'ham, at any rate) are in the top groups and already doing Y6 work in Y5.
Mike
I can't believe any child needs to work 10+ hours a week. I've always said that I don't believe the anecdotes of overtutored children struggling at grammar school, but I'm sure that anyone who needed 10 hours tuition a week to get in would indeed struggle. It certainly isn't necessary to do 10 hours a week to cover the Y6 syllabus early, most children likely to get a place at GS (in B'ham, at any rate) are in the top groups and already doing Y6 work in Y5.
Mike
Re: How many hours did your child study for 11+ preparation
Does frantic checking of times tables in the car and vocabulary testing when lying on the beach during the summer hols count ? If so, then you might need to add a bigger timescale on your poll for me ! 
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Sally-Anne
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- Location: Buckinghamshire
Re: How many hours did your child study for 11+ preparation
The Bucks 11+ doesn't need to be any more challenging because the whole county has retained the bi-partite school system, and competition for places is therefore less fierce than in many other areas of the country.
The qualification rate is 25% for Bucks residents, and 30% when out-of-county pupils are added in. If the test were any more demanding, the only result would be unfilled places at Bucks Grammar Schools.
Having said that, you miss a crucial point about the Bucks 11+. It only tests VR, and some bright children are not naturally gifted at VR. Those children could be advantaged by the inclusion of further types of test.
In areas where there are fewer GS places, the test needs to be harder. It is as simple as that.
I don't think that posting a poll in each area of the forum would be productive. The results would simply reflect the level of competition for places. Bucks and Lincs would be "less than 3.5 hours a week" while Surrey would be higher, as would Birmingham, Redbridge, etc. The amount of preparation undertaken for the 11+ in each area simply reflects the scarcity of places.
The qualification rate is 25% for Bucks residents, and 30% when out-of-county pupils are added in. If the test were any more demanding, the only result would be unfilled places at Bucks Grammar Schools.
Having said that, you miss a crucial point about the Bucks 11+. It only tests VR, and some bright children are not naturally gifted at VR. Those children could be advantaged by the inclusion of further types of test.
In areas where there are fewer GS places, the test needs to be harder. It is as simple as that.
I don't think that posting a poll in each area of the forum would be productive. The results would simply reflect the level of competition for places. Bucks and Lincs would be "less than 3.5 hours a week" while Surrey would be higher, as would Birmingham, Redbridge, etc. The amount of preparation undertaken for the 11+ in each area simply reflects the scarcity of places.
Re: How many hours did your child study for 11+ preparation
Our son got into the most competitive B'ham grammar. He did around 3 hours a week.
Perhaps 10+ hours a week makes sense if you start prep a few weeks before the test, but if you start a year before as most do in B'ham (although pressure for tutor places is forcing that out to 2 years, which from our experience I would say is counter productive) then you really don't need to spend that much time on it. I'd love to see some meaningful statistics on success rate vs. time spent on prep, personally I'd bet that anything over two or three hours a week for a year is a waste of time and quite possibly even harmful.
Mike
Perhaps 10+ hours a week makes sense if you start prep a few weeks before the test, but if you start a year before as most do in B'ham (although pressure for tutor places is forcing that out to 2 years, which from our experience I would say is counter productive) then you really don't need to spend that much time on it. I'd love to see some meaningful statistics on success rate vs. time spent on prep, personally I'd bet that anything over two or three hours a week for a year is a waste of time and quite possibly even harmful.
Times tables had not quite crept back onto the curriculum when our son went through it (but even if they were, like the most of the rest of the curriculum they'd have passed him by while he was looking out of the window) so we had to start from scratch, but half an hour of tables a week (5 mins on the way to school every morning and during the five minute trip to the tutor once a week) still doesn't take us over three and a half hours, and even that was finished within a few weeks (I had him learning 2 to 3 tables a week). If I'd attempted to talk about anything related to 11+ on holiday I'd have been lynched by the kids, and Mrs 1880 would have been teaching them how to tie the knots.scarlett wrote:Does frantic checking of times tables in the car and vocabulary testing when lying on the beach during the summer hols count ?
Mike
How many hours did your child study for 11+ preparation
Sally, your points are valid.
That is why many people are shocked that some children study more than 10 hours a week.
The issue is competition for places and number of subjects tested is crucial.
I would find it hard to do more than 3.5 hours a week in Bucks as it is just one subject.
The Bucks VR tests require a good vocabulary (read books = not formal study for many children)
and technique. You need to practice timing, which is critical.
Some child learn when decoding words, starting at the last letters may result in a quicker solution.
Either a child will work out the quickest method or be taught the technique.
Mike, the 4 papers are the full 50 min papers from Bond etc al.
I know many children did over 50 papers from various sources in the Birmingham and Warwickshire areas in just maths.
They did an equal number of VR, and comprehension papers and fewer NVR papers.
10 hours may be required to secure a high mark, especially if your child is out of area. There is a difference between scrapping a 303 score in Warwickshire and having to score more than 350 just to get a place, as an out of area waiting list offer.
The more subjects a child is tested on, the more work is required.
The scores are likely to correlate to the hours spent.
The highest score in Warwickshire this year was 424 (male) and 414 (female), both from a raw score of 166.
Unfortunately, the children are totally bored at school, because when they reach year 6, they have completed the entire syllabus. That is why I think the 11+ should be replaced by a national exam based on curriculum either year 5 SATS or a year 6 paper held in early in the year covering Maths, English and Science, with results provided before school applications.
What surprises me is that some people think 10 hours a week is too much.
This is hardly 1.5 hours a day. What will these children do at secondary school? Even in my school days, I had this much homework, and that is years ago. 10 hours a week still allows over 7 hours of console games, 10 hours television, at the weekends and 3 hours weekdays, football twice a week, karate, swimming and friends, plus reading for pleasure!
What do children do all day? This is another question!
I heard that many devout muslim children went to mosques to learn about their religion for 2 hours a night every school-day night and then studied a further 1.5 hours a night for the 11+.
Now, that is called hard work!
Remember, the cheapest baby sitter is not a televsion, it is a book!
That is why many people are shocked that some children study more than 10 hours a week.
The issue is competition for places and number of subjects tested is crucial.
I would find it hard to do more than 3.5 hours a week in Bucks as it is just one subject.
The Bucks VR tests require a good vocabulary (read books = not formal study for many children)
and technique. You need to practice timing, which is critical.
Some child learn when decoding words, starting at the last letters may result in a quicker solution.
Either a child will work out the quickest method or be taught the technique.
Mike, the 4 papers are the full 50 min papers from Bond etc al.
I know many children did over 50 papers from various sources in the Birmingham and Warwickshire areas in just maths.
They did an equal number of VR, and comprehension papers and fewer NVR papers.
10 hours may be required to secure a high mark, especially if your child is out of area. There is a difference between scrapping a 303 score in Warwickshire and having to score more than 350 just to get a place, as an out of area waiting list offer.
The more subjects a child is tested on, the more work is required.
The scores are likely to correlate to the hours spent.
The highest score in Warwickshire this year was 424 (male) and 414 (female), both from a raw score of 166.
Unfortunately, the children are totally bored at school, because when they reach year 6, they have completed the entire syllabus. That is why I think the 11+ should be replaced by a national exam based on curriculum either year 5 SATS or a year 6 paper held in early in the year covering Maths, English and Science, with results provided before school applications.
What surprises me is that some people think 10 hours a week is too much.
This is hardly 1.5 hours a day. What will these children do at secondary school? Even in my school days, I had this much homework, and that is years ago. 10 hours a week still allows over 7 hours of console games, 10 hours television, at the weekends and 3 hours weekdays, football twice a week, karate, swimming and friends, plus reading for pleasure!
What do children do all day? This is another question!
I heard that many devout muslim children went to mosques to learn about their religion for 2 hours a night every school-day night and then studied a further 1.5 hours a night for the 11+.
Now, that is called hard work!
Remember, the cheapest baby sitter is not a televsion, it is a book!
Re: How many hours did your child study for 11+ preparation
mike1880 wrote: If I'd attempted to talk about anything related to 11+ on holiday I'd have been lynched by the kids, and Mrs 1880 would have been teaching them how to tie the knots.
Mike
It was a bit stressy for us last summer ( well, probably only for me actually ) because the Kent Test was taken 8 days after starting back at school in the September so we had little choice but to keep things ticking over at least during the hols....DS wasn't too impressed but he knew it had to be done and at least all his friends were in the same boat.We are looking forward to a relaxing, amazing holiday this summer though......no work at all !
Re: How many hours did your child study for 11+ preparation
. So you are saying that the 11+ is in no way a measure of ability, merely of effort? Not really fit for purpose then is it?BoltBlue wrote:The more subjects a child is tested on, the more work is required.The scores are likely to correlate to the hours spent.
Why? I have certainly never had 1.5 hours a night homework 'career' and nor have my DC. There may be some of my peer group who think they did but this, I'm afraid to say, would reflect their lack of ability and consequent time taken to complete tasks rather than the amount of work actually set.BoltBlue wrote:What surprises me is that some people think 10 hours a week is too much. This is hardly 1.5 hours a day. What will these children do at secondary school? Even in my school days, I had this much homework, and that is years ago.
er...be children?BoltBlue wrote: What do children do all day? This is another question!:)
I am going to leave this discussion now because you seem to think that anyone who disagrees with you is lying so it is completely pointless.
mad?
Re: How many hours did your child study for 11+ preparation
We are in Bucks and did little preparation, other than running through a few timed practice papers to get them up to speed. My DCs were in what might be called the "bright but lazy" brigade. Any suggestion of extra tutoring on top of school would have resulted in WW2 in our house. However, although both have become harder working at grammar school, one of them greatly so, the other still has a tendency to try to get away with the minimum work, often to the detriment of the quality.
Boltblue, we could debate at length whether or not your child actually needed to do that large number of hours of preparation to do well in their 11 plus test. Whatever the answer, I think it will stand them in good stead in life to be willing to work so hard for a goal. The ability to get down to hard work is at least as important as native intelligence, and probably more so. I don't think you need to feel aggrieved if your child has spent more hours than many others on 11 plus papers. The good work habit acquired will be very useful in ensuring their continuing success.
Boltblue, we could debate at length whether or not your child actually needed to do that large number of hours of preparation to do well in their 11 plus test. Whatever the answer, I think it will stand them in good stead in life to be willing to work so hard for a goal. The ability to get down to hard work is at least as important as native intelligence, and probably more so. I don't think you need to feel aggrieved if your child has spent more hours than many others on 11 plus papers. The good work habit acquired will be very useful in ensuring their continuing success.
Re: How many hours did your child study for 11+ preparation
I don't think the scores do correlate to the hours spent actually, Boltblue. Maybe this is just my own experience, but with my son I always knew when I had overdone it as he would get very tired, confused and probably score less then 60 % in a paper he would normally get 80-90 % in....it would just be counter productive.
As Wurzel points out the extra work can only be a positive and I for one am quite pleased with the maths prep in particular...I've improved dramatically in my mental maths and no longer need to use a calculator !
( I like the term...bright but lazy brigade too, Wurzel ! )
As Wurzel points out the extra work can only be a positive and I for one am quite pleased with the maths prep in particular...I've improved dramatically in my mental maths and no longer need to use a calculator !
( I like the term...bright but lazy brigade too, Wurzel !
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Chelmsford mum
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Re: How many hours did your child study for 11+ preparation
I did next to nothing with my eldest because we didn't know we were moving here until a few weeks before the exam.Happily I didn't know how much practice some did, as I might not have bothered and thought we couldn't do it in the time left.I would say she did about 8 - 10 hours in all - all NFER VR papers and practice papers from Essex.It is a super selective and she performed very well.There is frequently someone on the Essex forum who posts in a panic in sept and thinks they have "left it too late" but it can be done.
With daughter number two the stakes seemed higher , as she wanted to be with her sister.
We started after the Easter hols an hour every Sunday afternoon in term time only.We did work in the half term before the Nov test about an hour every second day - apart from that no holiday time work.So I imagine we did about 30 hours (wow actually sounds a lot - but that was over 6 months) in all - mostly practice Vr questions and the maths that her school wouldn't have got covered by the start of year 6.
She almost didn't get in - missing the cut off by a third of one percent.Happily she was close enough to get a place when someone dropped out.Some would therefore say we prepped too little.
Two very different girls - two years apart with different temperaments.Temperament has a lot to do with the amount of prep.Neither objected to doing the work - if they did maybe I would have had to do more? I don't know.Perhaps overall I was too laid back and could have done more.It worked out for us - just! I would probably recommend others did more - I think
I have met parents locally who begin to formally prep from year 3.At least two of our local indep primaries certainly have VR on the timetable from year 3 and run lots of practice tests.It is this knowledge that panics some people into years and hours and hours of prep.I am not convinced that it is needed but it does seem fairly commonplace around here.That said I also know many parents who start with a bit of home prep from Easter onwards.
The rankings are so tight here that there really is a lot of "luck on the day" and temperament/nerves play a huge part.Although the Chelmsford school takes 120 - there are probably at least another 100 who would be able to cope there, but just fluff a few questions on the day and miss the cut.
With daughter number two the stakes seemed higher , as she wanted to be with her sister.
We started after the Easter hols an hour every Sunday afternoon in term time only.We did work in the half term before the Nov test about an hour every second day - apart from that no holiday time work.So I imagine we did about 30 hours (wow actually sounds a lot - but that was over 6 months) in all - mostly practice Vr questions and the maths that her school wouldn't have got covered by the start of year 6. She almost didn't get in - missing the cut off by a third of one percent.Happily she was close enough to get a place when someone dropped out.Some would therefore say we prepped too little.
Two very different girls - two years apart with different temperaments.Temperament has a lot to do with the amount of prep.Neither objected to doing the work - if they did maybe I would have had to do more? I don't know.Perhaps overall I was too laid back and could have done more.It worked out for us - just! I would probably recommend others did more - I think
I have met parents locally who begin to formally prep from year 3.At least two of our local indep primaries certainly have VR on the timetable from year 3 and run lots of practice tests.It is this knowledge that panics some people into years and hours and hours of prep.I am not convinced that it is needed but it does seem fairly commonplace around here.That said I also know many parents who start with a bit of home prep from Easter onwards.
The rankings are so tight here that there really is a lot of "luck on the day" and temperament/nerves play a huge part.Although the Chelmsford school takes 120 - there are probably at least another 100 who would be able to cope there, but just fluff a few questions on the day and miss the cut.
