IQ and its role

[marigold]

Words fail me.

[mad?]

What was it Amber was saying about teaching values and citizenship the other day?

[Sunshine 11]

I know lots of really clever people who may not do that well in life because they do not have the work ethic and drive. IQ does not always = success, however you measure it......

[Paramjeet]

sometimes reality said as to how it is can be quite a shock to those who lead 'perfect' lives in their perfect bubble. For those that live in the real world and know what goes on, are shocked on a daily basis.

[yoyo123]

there is a danger in sweeping generalisations.

'Some' doesn't necessarily mean the vast majority

[Amber]

Some of the 'poor' are not really poor but inherently lazy and living of the taxes of the successful. Jealousy and envy lead to crime often to feed drug habits. What chance their kids some of whom may be very bright but living in dreadful conditions. You make your own luck in this world.

Whereas the rich, who are not inherently lazy, or prone to jealousy or envy, 'make their their own luck' by having rich parents and living in nice houses in good areas well away from poor people with drug habits.

Perhaps you could elaborate on how, if the children have no chance because of the 'dreadful conditions' they live in, they are supposed to make their own luck?

[mystery]

Now you are putting words into Paramjeet's mouth / onto his / her keyboard.

There are many reasons for drug abuse; I have never considered envy or jealousy as causes, but they certainly are a possibility as they make people unhappy, whatever the size of the wallet.

I confess to having an extremely wealthy but very distant relative with a drug habit that lead to violent crime and ultimately death. Fortunately he had no children.

[yoyo123]

can we get back on topic please everyone,

[magwich2]

I presume all those who criticise the theory of why some people are "poor" have an alternative explanation? Perhaps they could share this with us rather than abusing other posters. Thanks

[mystery]

Ok, well it would be possible to use IQ tests for school entrance selection. Of course it would have its pitfalls - as with any other form of testing.

It is a relatively expensive form of testing if done correctly and according to the BPS guidelines etc etc. For a 10 year old child testing IQ by purely written papers like mass administered 11plus tests would not produce a very accurate measure of IQ. Neither schools or parents are going to want to pay £300 - £500 per child with an Ed Psych to do it "properly".

Most schools however, no matter how selective they appear to be regarding "intelligence", also want children to have certain skills. For example, it is possible to have an extremely high IQ and not be able to read or write, or to do so extremely badly. Few secondary school teachers would know how to deal with this - either in terms of teaching a child to read or write from scratch, or how to adjust it for the rare individual who would never be able to do this no matter how thorough the teaching they received.

It is possible to gain top marks in many 11plus exams and not be able to write - they are all multiple choice questions in some areas! I don't know how state grammars cope with the occasional child who turns up barely able to handwrite, or scarcely able to express themselves on paper. Highly selective independents would not open themselves up to taking this on.

There must be lots of other reasons too including the pitfalls mentioned higher in this thread regarding what is IQ, inherent unfairnesses in the testing process etc etc.