Non - Christian children attending a C of E school?
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Re: Non - Christian children attending a C of E school?
It would be very miserable to go to a Church of England primary school and not take part in the daily assemblies and regular school services in church. If this is what your friend would feel she had to do to her child, she should look for a secular school ( if they really exist) or a school of her own religion (if she has one).PROBSNAIVE wrote:Not necessarily RE but the collective worship, attending church services
Re: Non - Christian children attending a C of E school?
Like others have said, there are basically two choices, either go and get a bit of religious stuff (and some of this will be very fringe anyway, eg if told to care about others because God does, is it that different to just being told to care about others). I suspect the bible stuff is not going to overwelm the general idea of learning (but have a meeting with the school if it is a big concern).PROBSNAIVE wrote:The class sizes are small with only 15 in each year. The current reception class does not have children of any other religions. I have advised her to go in and discuss with the teachers to get an idea of how much Christian teaching is involved but reading the prospectus it seems to have a big focus on this.
For many a school with only 15 in a class, which has a good Ofsted and is nearby to home would be a no-brainer, for them a few minutes a day of religion would be acceptable trade-off (especially at Primary level where religious message isn't likely to be excessive)
The other way to consider it is to appraise the alternative. How far is the next school, can you get there, is it any good, what are your chances of getting in (might exceed distance criteria) etc.
Every individual can have their own view, but the important thing is whatever option is chosen that the child gets best oportunity to learn to read / write and do basic maths etc
One final point, my DD went to a regular (non religious) school, but they still did trips to churches, mosques etc and had navitity plays (infant) or carol concert in a local church (junior) just before Christmas. There were many religions, but don't think any parent asked for their child to opt out as the children didn't want to be left out of what their friends were doing.
Re: Non - Christian children attending a C of E school?
As a measure of how much religion seeps into them at primary...
We are not church goers. We have never said to our DD that God exists or that he doesn't. Very much up to her whether she did or didn't believe. We have brought her up with good manners, moral values and a sense of right and wrong, something the school also value and instil.
In year 5 they had to write about what they believed in for RE. At parents evening I read the piece. 5 years of education in a CofE school gave us this,
"I do not believe in God, God did not create the world, the Big Bang did.
We should thank the environment, because our environment provides us with all the things we need."
When looking at primaries we also looked at another CofE school. Again the intake is multicultural, but the head said everyone participates regardless of religion, and her view was that if children were going to be withdrawn from assemblies etc, then perhaps it wasn't the school for their child.
We are not church goers. We have never said to our DD that God exists or that he doesn't. Very much up to her whether she did or didn't believe. We have brought her up with good manners, moral values and a sense of right and wrong, something the school also value and instil.
In year 5 they had to write about what they believed in for RE. At parents evening I read the piece. 5 years of education in a CofE school gave us this,
"I do not believe in God, God did not create the world, the Big Bang did.
We should thank the environment, because our environment provides us with all the things we need."
When looking at primaries we also looked at another CofE school. Again the intake is multicultural, but the head said everyone participates regardless of religion, and her view was that if children were going to be withdrawn from assemblies etc, then perhaps it wasn't the school for their child.
Re: Non - Christian children attending a C of E school?
Tinkers wrote:As a measure of how much religion seeps into them at primary...
We are not church goers. We have never said to our DD that God exists or that he doesn't. Very much up to her whether she did or didn't believe. We have brought her up with good manners, moral values and a sense of right and wrong, something the school also value and instil.
In year 5 they had to write about what they believed in for RE. At parents evening I read the piece. 5 years of education in a CofE school gave us this,
"I do not believe in God, God did not create the world, the Big Bang did.
We should thank the environment, because our environment provides us with all the things we need."
When looking at primaries we also looked at another CofE school. Again the intake is multicultural, but the head said everyone participates regardless of religion, and her view was that if children were going to be withdrawn from assemblies etc, then perhaps it wasn't the school for their child.
we go to church weekly, the kids go to Sunday school and they go to Church of England school. Dd1 is atheist and has recently convinced herself that Father Christmas exists.Re: Non - Christian children attending a C of E school?
We're churchgoers and our children went to a CofE primary, but I still had to fill in the last census form as "3 CofE and 1 atheist" and if I did it now it would have to be "2 CofE, 1 atheist and 1 too lazy to count as anything at all".
Re: Non - Christian children attending a C of E school?
My younger son had to write an essay entitled 'Does God exist?' in Y7. They were told to keep it brief. Nonetheless his one-word answer in the negative was deemed not to have met the requirements of the task.
Re: Non - Christian children attending a C of E school?
Not a good question to ask if you don't just want a one-word answer, really! Perhaps add "Discuss" or something similar?Amber wrote:My younger son had to write an essay entitled 'Does God exist?' in Y7. They were told to keep it brief. Nonetheless his one-word answer in the negative was deemed not to have met the requirements of the task.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx
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PROBSNAIVE
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Re: Non - Christian children attending a C of E school?
Thanks everyone, some really useful comments and viewpoints. Much appreciated. 
Re: Non - Christian children attending a C of E school?
I went to CofE school where 95% were Muslims. Some were withdrawn from collective worship and came only for the assembly part, others joined in everything. Neither of the groups were scarred in any way.
We send ours to a Catholic school (60% are actually Catholics). We tried a local community school first but it was frankly rubbish and this was the only reasonable alternative. We initially said that as long as they don't take part in any of the rituals, there would be no need to withdraw them formally from anything. But they were always pressurising them. The non-Catholic children from not very religious families seem to go along with things and just see it as part of school life. Those from more religious families tend not to be comfortable with some aspects of worship and parents should be free to exercise their legal right to withdraw them. We just removed them from CW and left RE and I have no regrets as my children were actually grateful not to have to things they were not convinced with and are confident to stand by this - there are a couple of other kids who do this at the school too. I guess it depends on how well the child will cope with being singled out of certain and whether there will be any other children doing the same.
I find it a bit of a cop out to tell minority religions to travel ridiculous distances because they don't want their children to take part in CW - as is their legal right. Faith schools are not exempt from complying with these rules. And it can be done with sensitivity: our school made a scene about how it would be disruptive at first and now they simply get them to get their reading books out at their tables or go to a classroom during whole school worship.
We send ours to a Catholic school (60% are actually Catholics). We tried a local community school first but it was frankly rubbish and this was the only reasonable alternative. We initially said that as long as they don't take part in any of the rituals, there would be no need to withdraw them formally from anything. But they were always pressurising them. The non-Catholic children from not very religious families seem to go along with things and just see it as part of school life. Those from more religious families tend not to be comfortable with some aspects of worship and parents should be free to exercise their legal right to withdraw them. We just removed them from CW and left RE and I have no regrets as my children were actually grateful not to have to things they were not convinced with and are confident to stand by this - there are a couple of other kids who do this at the school too. I guess it depends on how well the child will cope with being singled out of certain and whether there will be any other children doing the same.
I find it a bit of a cop out to tell minority religions to travel ridiculous distances because they don't want their children to take part in CW - as is their legal right. Faith schools are not exempt from complying with these rules. And it can be done with sensitivity: our school made a scene about how it would be disruptive at first and now they simply get them to get their reading books out at their tables or go to a classroom during whole school worship.
UmSusu
Re: Non - Christian children attending a C of E school?
Yes, I do not see that withdrawal would be a problem in some ways but if your children were the only ones doing that it could be an issue.
Also it all depends where you draw the line. Where does the worship and the ritual start and stop for you personally? At our c of e school there are quite a few church services where the children have a small part in some kind of performance based on a bible story and there are rehearsals for this and parents watch. It would be quite sad not to be able to take part. Also each class leads an assembly 3 times a year to which parents are invited. Again it would be sad not to take part.
I went to a school with a reasonable number of Jewish children. They followed a different course book in r.e., but within the same classroom, and did something else during school assembly. It was not a problem for them, but the religious parts of the day did not mingle with the secular bits in the same way as they do at our c of e primary, and the bits in which children performed and parents watched were all secular.
It very much depends on the school. But a different head could change things and because it is a c of e school you would need to be prepared for the "worst".
Also it all depends where you draw the line. Where does the worship and the ritual start and stop for you personally? At our c of e school there are quite a few church services where the children have a small part in some kind of performance based on a bible story and there are rehearsals for this and parents watch. It would be quite sad not to be able to take part. Also each class leads an assembly 3 times a year to which parents are invited. Again it would be sad not to take part.
I went to a school with a reasonable number of Jewish children. They followed a different course book in r.e., but within the same classroom, and did something else during school assembly. It was not a problem for them, but the religious parts of the day did not mingle with the secular bits in the same way as they do at our c of e primary, and the bits in which children performed and parents watched were all secular.
It very much depends on the school. But a different head could change things and because it is a c of e school you would need to be prepared for the "worst".
