How many families are really doing this?

teffi · Post by **teffi** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:38 am

yes mitasol you mean taking a vocab list in the car and testing ds on his words out-of-context while hubby drives us to a day out? I did that a few times because DS was not reading enough i felt. I agree that it takes over your life and it took over a lot of the summer holiday ( what holiday?)

At one point during the summer I calculated DS had done three and a half hours home tutoring in a week. More typically it was about two and a half hours. He would do a practice paper on a Sunday morning. One Sunday after school term had begun but a week before the first test DS went out unexpectedly all day at short notice to some kind of motoring show ( only the blokes went- it was a bloke thing) which I am sure was some light relief from all that prep.

I gave DS a choice. He could do the missed VR practice paper the next day, Monday, either before or after school. No 5 a.m. start here but he did the paper before school starting at 7.50 . He then went to school, walked into his classroom and saw on the table. . .a practice paper! ! He said " Mum it was waiting for me". Luckily it was a NVR one, so it was different. We had a laugh about it but I did feel sorry for him having to do two practice papers under test conditions with half an hour between. Overkill, maybe?

Post by **mitasol** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:56 am

Hi teffi,

I was thinking that the papers are just the tip of the iceberg and if anyone were to actually measure the time spent on anything that could be considered tutoring, it would be considerably more than we imagine.

Yes, I think we (those of us who home tutored) are underestimating time/effort we put into, getting them through the exam. Just saying, "our prep was, x number of papers" is a bit disingenuous.

BTW I empathise with difficulty of switching off!

Chelmsford mum · Post by **Chelmsford mum** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:15 am

mitasol wrote: Just saying, "our prep was, x number of papers" is a bit disingenuous.

BTW I empathise with difficulty of switching off!

Don't want to be argumentative but really do believe that those that home prepare are generally doing far less than others.I am not saying, in the current competitive climate, that this is a good thing.

Even if I had wanted to test DD on vocab in the car, the other three wouldn't have let me and life fitting in work and everyone else's hobbies etc just did not allow enough time.That is after all, why some people pay for tutoring.
I had a pre schooler as well as older child, as well as work when the second DD was preparing and honestly found it very hard to carve out time I could devote just to her.
I used to be very skeptical of tutoring but it was actually this time pressure and relative lack of prep that means had we been able to afford it, in retrospect. I might have considered a tutor.
Not the 5 am tutor though

Post by **mitasol** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:39 am

I'm not being argumentative either.

(I've already been in trouble this week!)

I was thinking for example, that every single conversation with your DC is an opportunity to improve vocabulary.

You would consider this, just part of your parenting role, but shouldn't it also be included in your preparation count.

Chelmsford mum · Post by **Chelmsford mum** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:08 am

mitasol wrote:I'm not being argumentative either. (I've already been in trouble this week!)

I was thinking for example, that every single conversation with your DC is an opportunity to improve vocabulary.

You would consider this, just part of your parenting role, but shouldn't it also be included in your preparation count.

You must have better quality conversations than we do!
Seriously though I think not, no more than those that are tutoring would have chats with their parents.
All in all I was probably not neurotic enough about this all.I felt guilty doing any prep at home and so strictly avoided 11+ stuff at other times.I was too laid back though.I did absolutely nothing over the summer and daughter's brain definitely went on holiday, which was not good.
I also let her keep all her hobbies which at that point was two instruments and three lots of dance.Perhaps I was daft really

but didn't want to give the impression that the 11+ was the" be all and end all".
I had friends whose children spent everyday of the half term before in tutoring clubs.

I worried that if we went overboard like that, and she didn't get in to our local super selctive,(which she very nearly didn't), it would have been impossible to be believed when I said
"Don't worry .It doesn't matter, you did your best etc".

How could parents deal in a convincing way with failure, e.g " we love you .It doesn't matter.You will do well anywhere etc" when they have spent two years and many hours per week training a child.
Kids aren't stupid.If the whole household appears to revolve around 11+ preparation, then you can't really pretend afterwards that it doesn't matter that much.

All this was not directed at any particular posters on this thread.I have no idea what prep people on here do.I do know though that there are a lot of people massively overdoing it and the article, if true, is the supreme example of it.
I would do more than I did, if I had the time over again, but I am still glad she knew it was not the test alone which could determine her future.

Post by **mitasol** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:18 pm

I do agree that the cases cited in the Observer are excessive.

I was just pondering that school and tutoring are fixed, x hours to acheive y things. Home education (of which I have no experience)/home tutoring is much more fluid, things are achieved as opportunities present themselves.

I drive past a field of lambs and it reminds me to get into a conversation about cow\bull\calf\herd...

The 5 mins. spent here and there could soon add up to at least an hour of tutoring a week. I'm not talking about the sit down work, I'm meaning the -on the fly stuff.

P.S. I don't believe you don't have splendid conversations with your DC

I have to admit that enriching DC vocab, does not particularly come from 11+. When my DD was quite young we were in a department store - some emergency caused instruction to be given, to evacuate the building. Although it turned out to be nothing serious, it filled me with fear, that she didn't understand what evacuate meant - and therefore could not follow the instructions on her own.

Chelmsford mum · Post by **Chelmsford mum** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:48 pm

mitasol wrote:I do agree that the cases cited in the Observer are excessive.
I drive past a field of lambs and it reminds me to get into a conversation about cow\bull\calf\herd...
P.S. I don't believe you don't have splendid conversations with your DC

Wow. You are impressive and focused.I drive past a field of lambs and think "on no I didn't get the chops out of the freezer.Pizza again

"

I do get your point and I did that kind of thing with DD1 when she was little and the only one and I did less hours at work etc. My others will just have to follow the stampeding crowd if they need to evacuate

Tolstoy · Post by **Tolstoy** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:05 pm

I am with CM on this one. In homes where they can afford to pay for tutors there is probably still a lot of the incidental suplimentary work going on. The parents themselves are likely to have had a good education and have good verbal skills which they will impart to their offspring without even realising it.

The children who really could benifit from exessive tutoring are probably the very children who are not getting it. Bringing in Maths and English tests would completely knock them out of the loop unless they were fortunate enough to be in a very good primary.

Post by **mitasol** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:11 pm

I'm dealing with the eldest now...so I'm sure you're right, it certainly gets harder to give each of them the attention they need.

Getting older and more knackered as I type.

Chelmsford mum · Post by **Chelmsford mum** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:16 pm

Tolstoy wrote:I am with CM on this one. In homes where they can afford to pay for tutors there is probably still a lot of the incidental suplimentary work going on. The parents themselves are likely to have had a good education and have good verbal skills which they will impart to their offspring without even realising it.

The children who really could benifit from exessive tutoring are probably the very children who are not getting it. Bringing in Maths and English tests would completely knock them out of the loop unless they were fortunate enough to be in a very good primary.

We have English and Maths as well as reasoning in our 11+ It would have to have been an extraordinarily good primary to have covered what is required.Given the test is in Nov, the National Curriculum in maths doesn't get to some of the topics needed until the end of year 6.

The English is pitched very high indeed in terms of the comprehension e.g "Mill on the Floss", "Tess of the D'urbevilles". Not the average books of choice for a ten year old.
We do have some local state primaries that offer supplementary after school coaching but they are few and far between.
Several of the local indep primaries incorporate prep into their timetable.
That is a whole other thread I suppose.