What's so wrong with State schools?

[Kingfisher]

A BRIGHT CHILD WILL DO WELL ANYWHERE-

Although a bright child will do well anywhere, s/he will not necessarily do as well as s/he would have done in a school where there is less disruption and the work is targeted towards the brightest rather than getting students who might otherwise have scored D grades over the C grade boundary.

I taught in a school in inner London for ten years and I saw plenty of extremely able students not achieving their potential for a whole range of reasons, but largely as a result of disruptive behaviour.

My own DD went to a state school for several years of primary and she was so victimised because of her ability. The school was not able to cope with a child at her level of ability as they did not have the resources or the training. So I made the decision to take her out and never put her back in a state school.

[Guest55]

Kingfisher - the vast majority of students who are bright WILL do well at nearly all schools.

'Cream always rises to the top' has been a well-used quote on this site which has proved true over and over again.

Why do people think that because you pay it has to be better? That just isn't true - I've taught in both sectors and CHOSE a state school for my own child.

You cannot compare outcomes without looking at the intake. It's the progress that children make that makes a good school. So for some GS 98% five A* to C including En and Ma is not as good progress as a comp getting 50%.

[Sallyltb]

Kingfisher - the vast majority of students who are bright WILL do well at nearly all schools.

In which case I wonder why the vast majority of people on this site ate bothering to try to get their children into good schools...

[Daogroupie]

Gladsitsallovermum, You have just told us in another thread that you spent two hours a night from Easter to November tutoring your ds for QE boys, Latymer and DAO. So if you really believe a bright child can do well anywhere then why did you not send your ds to the local comp? I don't believe a bright child can do well anywhere. I have spent far too much time in disruptive classrooms where bright students are prevented from working by those who don't want to. But you obviously do believe it as you have stated it in both threads. So why did you spend hundreds of hours working to keep your ds out of the local comp when you believe that he would do well anywhere? DG

[gladitsovermum]

I think that a lot of parents that I know whose DC did not get into a selective school were understandably upset and disappointed and have resigned themselves to believing that their DC will not be the next Einstein because now they have to go a comp. This just isn't the case. I would have been just as happy for DS to have gone to our local state school although slightly annoyed at the time I spent tutoring him, if he didn't get into the selective school he wanted to go to.

As parents we sometimes we moan about the state secondaries but fail to get off our backsides to make a difference - EDUCATION MATTERS whether state, selective, independent, in Europe or Africa.
Ways parents can help schools improve is by getting involved, volunteer your expertise, get on the Board of Governors, go to Ofsted if you have concerns, there have been some schools that were in special measures that have been turned around into OUTSTANDING SCHOOLS when the Board of Governors were brave enough to question the leadership. Be part of the community or create one - it's not rocket science.

[gladitsovermum]

DAOGROUPIE, I believe that if a teacher cannot manage disruptive behaviour they're in the wrong profession. I would have serious concerns about the safety of my children if the teacher could not maintain order in the class.

As for your question - I think I have ruffled a few feathers.

In response the simple answer is that I have always taken a hands-on response to my childrens' education so the 'tutoring' was an extension of what I have been doing with him since he started school, which again shows it's not the school but what you actually do with your own children outside of school that can often help give them that extra boost.

I did not get down to the nitty gritty of timed papers till the summer which by tutoring standards is very late when DS' friends had started their tutoring in Year 4.

It was his choice to go to QE Boys as he has friends that are now in QE from his current school that he goes swimming and football clubs with on the weekends and he wanted to be with them. I told him that he wasn't going to get in without hard work and that's where we started and our local state was our 2nd choice and a school that I was really impressed with. DAO was practice and Latymer was in case we didn't get the local comp as we were out of catchments for the other local state schools.

I hope I've answered your question.

[Guest55]

Sallyltb - this is a thread about whether to go private so my comment was in that context.

There are excellent comprehensives and, in Bucks, excellent Upper Schools, so there is a choice other than going to a private school.

[mike1880]

Some bright children will do well anywhere.

Someone was telling me recently about a relative who'd been to a not particularly well regarded local school and come out with 13 GCSEs at A*, and said how supportive the staff had been.

After a short pause she said "Of course, the other kids beat him black and blue every single day".

(At least this boy had the opportunity to take 13 GCSEs; it's not even an option at our local school, I should point out.)

I would venture to suggest that not many bright children will do well in that environment (I know our eldest wouldn't) and that some contributors to this forum are wilfully blind to the problems that exist in some schools.

Mike

[silverysea]

Bright children often suffer a lot in the wrong company, and they may or may not do well in their exams. If they do badly, people just say they weren't actually bright. As teens some will do anything to have friends and fit in, and hiding their light is an effective way to achieve that. I have several friends like this, who have struggled on low incomes for many years when they were known to have a high IQ and top of the class in primary.

My Y8 daughter can't hear what the teacher is saying over the din of the disruptive ones deliberately seated in the front row to be "managed", in one of her (better) classes. Meanwhile she is subjected to low-level bullying by the Queen Bees, who aren't disruptive, oh no. That's why they get away with undermining her confidence, now they've realised they aren't the only (2) bright ones (jealous IMO). So she mustn't put her hand up to ask anything, or she gets the snide comments and sneering stares. Also she is tempted to switch off, daydream and socialise, while waiting for the class to actually get on to the subject in hand. This is below her ability as she already knows most of the content from her own interests, but showing an interest publicly results in social death (her words), so little chance of extension for her from the teacher no matter how good they are.

The teachers who are less successful at "managing" (i.e. don't have the wasters under their thumb at the front) have objects flying through the air, including open bottles of drinks, and most of the lesson taken up by stupid comments and backchat, and crowd control.

I don't agree that teachers' job is to manage disruptive behaviour. Who would go into it for that? I want them to teach my child and that is what I pay for in my taxes.

[Sallyltb]

Sallyltb - this is a thread about whether to go private so my comment was in that context.

There are excellent comprehensives and, in Bucks, excellent Upper Schools, so there is a choice other than going to a private school.

My point is exactly the same as @DAOgroupie - people are here to help their children get into good schools and spend blood, sweat, tears and cash to ensure it.

I do not believe that a bright child WILL perform to their potential wherever they go to school. Thre is classroom disruption, bullying and simply teaching to the majority of the class.

When our eldest was in Year 6. One of the local non-selectives didn't offer separate or even triple science at GCSE. Now it does not teach any post16 science. Not very good for those bright children who want to pursue study in that area.