Hi hope this helps all parents

[emmaisfab]

hi actually i did work really hard. It didn't help that all my reports said "tries hard but finds this subject difficult". I was often singled out in class as being the one who didn't understand particularly in Maths where I was made to wear the Dunce's Yellow hat almost each week.(A hat for girls who came bottom in the weekly test) I desperately wanted to be like the brighter girls and would spend much longer on my homework that most of my cohort only to have remarks on my work like "clearly you have not grasped this subject". I never had any positive feedback as to where I had gone wrong, just that I WAS wrong if you see what I mean.

When I left school, I did many RSA secretarial qualifications and typing courses on top of the secretarial course and love learning.

I'm really sorry if so many of you feel my remarks were not helpful. It wasn't meant to be negative,just an alternative view for those children who perhaps are borderline.

I think Grammar Schools on the whole do a good job for children who thrive in them. I was just pointing out that some children don't.

[stroudydad]

Please don't think I was judging you, i just didnt see how your post came about..I Would be considered by many as a failure of the grammar school system(especially by MY parents) Low paid job, works hard long hours. Thankfully I see it differently. I got good results at Gcse and A level, but made bad choices after that. Without the bad choices though, I wouldn't have the wonderful wife and children that I do... So if anyone asks do I have regrets?, I would say yes.. But would I change anything? Not for the world.

[wonderwoman]

Yes it is pretty rubbish round here too. If my children do not pass the eleven plus round here the secondary moderns ( which they were still calling them a decade ago here ) are poor for the most part. The access to education once you have left school here is poor too.

And a lot of the primaries are not great. I for one long for a tutor who could scrape my children through the eleven plus!

You write eloquently Emma. Why did you only manage 1 a level?

Probably not similar to your situation Mystery. Our non-selective school is still called a secondary modern and actually it's a lovely school and I rarely meet pupils who have not enjoyed their time there. It achieves well above the national average for GCSEs, which is outstanding given its intake. They had planned to build a post GCSE unit, but it has been abandoned since the education budget has been cut. I really like the school. The problem is that there are not enough places for those wishing to do A levels at the grammars - and that is a massive problem. Our local primaries are also excellent and people rarely choose to send their DCS to primaries not in their catchment.

Emma you would have been in good company at my grammar school - many pupils left with no qualifications what-so-ever. Nothing - not even a CSE. We did Latin, which I enjoyed, but also domestic science and needlework - taught by the most fantastic teacher; no woodwork for us though as it was a girls' school! I left with one A level too - resat elsewhere and went from an O level pass to an A grade. They wouldn't even help me apply for uni! My school just didn't bother with the lower sets. But I do think you are correct - grammar school is still a miserable experience for many pupils on that borderline.

[emmaisfab]

The reason I think why I only got one A'level in English was because I failed A level Law! I did manage 5 O'levels however despite the Grammar School head saying she thought I'd be lucky to get one, (English Language) and despite changing schools midstream. Before the National Curriculum all schools did different boards which meant I'd had to go from the 3rd form at Grammar School being prepared for one mainly CSE syllabus to the 4th form at the Comprehensive doing O'levels in a completely different syllabus. It was great at the Comp because for the first time in my secondary school life I wasn't the least able in the class and I was in the top sets for everything except Maths and I've only very recently after 8 attempts over the years at GCSE Maths been diagnosed with Dyscalculia. In my day you were just labelled "thick"!

Interestingly even my husband with all his qualifications still feels a failure because he failed his eleven plus!!!!!! Its the one thing he always says to people his age. I find it quite worrying that 35 odd years on and with an MA and studying for a PHd, that's what defines his academic education. He's not the only one either. He has a colleague who like him teaches at a University who says exactly the same thing. My husband's never forgotten having to go part of the way to school with his elder Grammar School brother and all his brother's friends calling him a "thick looser" and deliberately holding conversations in Latin which my husband didn't understand because they did'nt do Latinat his schoool.

[Daogroupie]

Grammar school is not a miserable experience to children on the borderline. Some of the students who were way down the waiting list have got the year academic prizes. If students are struggling then there is help there for them if they and their parents request it. I know very low ability students who have parents who have moved to get them in. Why would they do that if they thought they would be miserable? I question this decision as I think they would be better elsewhere but their parents clearly do not think this is the case. I see students who squander their opportunities at secondary school but I don't see miserable students. Emma, I am horrified to hear about your dunce's hat, no wonder you left feeling negative about education. I had no idea that students were going through this when I was at school. Does your old school still exist? I think you would find education like a different world now. DG

[mystery]

You went to some shockingly bad schools Emma. It is such a shame. It is nothing to do with being borderline. It sounds like your parents gave up after paying for you to be tutored to get in to the grammar.

Why did you fail the law a level do you think?

[wonderwoman]

Grammar school is not a miserable experience to children on the borderline. DG

You just can't generalise. For some it is and for some not on the borderline it is and there may be children in other schools who also have a miserable experience. I know one child who was in all the bottom sets, but really loved the grammar school. My DD has never enjoyed her GS experience and never wants to set foot in the place again - she was in the higher sets, sad as she had so looked forward to going.

I know very low ability students who have parents who have moved to get them in. Why would they do that if they thought they would be miserable?

I don't believe any parent sends their child to a school thinking they may be miserable and I think that was what Emma was trying to highlight. GS is not always the best option. I spend a considerable amount of my time discussing secondary school options with parents as a Y5 teacher and as I've said the choices are relatively limited here. Almost without exception they want their child to go to the grammar. It's the parents' choice obviously and I have never doubted that every parent makes what they believe to be the best choice for their DC, but it's not always what I'd do.

Sadly I don't think Emma would have been alone in having a dunce's hat, or something similar. My sister and her friends were told at GS, in front of others, that they would earn their money on street corners, my DS (this year) was sat with the 'thick losers' for exams - because they have a variety of special needs they are grouped together and that is what they are called by the rest of the school.

[mystery]

Awful, but at least that was not what the staff were saying whereas the dunce's cap sounded official.

It is very hard to choose the right school for a child without the benefit of hindsight.

School days can be a miserable experience at many schools.

[emmaisfab]

yes, both my old schools still exist. The Grammar School went independent (fee paying) the year i left and is the best girls schools in the area. My Comprehensive still exists has been judged "outstanding" by Ofsted and regularly sends children to good Universities.

Of course people have different experiences at Grammar School and am very embarrassed that some people on this forum seem to think i'm "anti-Grammar" school. Not at all. I think for the most part they give the best education possible. Often better than fee paying schools in my opinion. However, I just think that they don't suit everyone and its probably true actually that its often whether the school suits the child rather than the child's innate ability. My parents were ambitious for myself, not I guess unlike many of you and what's wrong with that? They had both been products of the Grammar School system and my mother taught in one. Its just for them there was no alternative. After disasterous exam results at the end of Year 3 and options consisting of 3 CSE's and O'level English the Head called my mother in and strongly advised her to send me somewhere else. I think going independent was a factor as the school's standards rose even higher and I later discovered that some other girls in the "C"form had left, one or two during their O'level/CSE year as the school wanted to attract the highest calibre of parents. Eventually the C form was abolished completely and the entrance exam for the school was much more robust than ever the 11+ had been. No one was allowed to take CSE's at the school and if they couldn't cope they were just asked to leave.

My brother loved every minute of his Direct Grant school went on to University and became an Army Officer.

In terms of why I failed my Law A'level. I couldn't remember all the different cases and got confused in the exam. In fact I got a D which in our day was called a lower grade pass, which meant in effect a fail as it wasn't counted for University.

Got an A in English though!

[wonderwoman]

My sister and her friends were told at GS, in front of others, that they would earn their money on street corners,

That was said by the deputy head! But I don't think the teachers call my DS's group thick losers - that is the other students - but I fail to understand why they need to be segregated at all, there doesn't appear to be a reason. Some are in a private room if they need to be away from the others for some reason.

It is very hard to choose the right school for a child without the benefit of hindsight.

School days can be a miserable experience at many schools.

You're right about that.

Emma I do not support the selective system, but have to live with it. I am really envious of some of my friends who have been able to send their children to the most wonderful comprehensives - massive but fantastic. Their children have transferred from primary with all their friends and have had the same opportunities at secondary, some have followed an academic route, some not. Not like mine, 2 have had to endure a highly academic education (12 GCSEs in one sitting) and one has been offered a much less academic route (no individual sciences) even though their ability and aspirations are very similar.