In which selective schools one can get offer from outside

[Amber]

There must be a reason behind this craze - right?

I'm not sure I would define it as a craze.

I am indeed trying to figure out whether GS are must have and if so, why?

Well presumably you have done some research or you would not be considering it either. Imho there is a massive hype around the concept of a grammar school as being somehow better intrinsically than other types of school. If you are stuck in an area which has grammar schools, there may be some teeth to this argument - the middle classes tend to colonise grammar schools and standards of exam results etc tend to be higher than in the remainder of schools where those who don't pass the exam go. But in terms of moving to a GS area from one where there are no GSs, well that makes no sense at all, because there is no difference in intrinsic intelligence between children born in a GS area vs one with no GSs, and the kids have to go somewhere. It is a circular argument. Many of us on here would rather not have to use grammar schools but live in areas where they exist, so opting out of them would be a silly political gesture.

I can't really decide if you are asking these questions seriously or not?

[streathammum]

You are right. I am indeed trying to figure out whether GS are must have and if so, why?

Or it is just some snobbery of showing "my kids are better than yours"

There must be a reason behind this craze - right? Otherwise this entire website would not exist. It is also a fact that lots of people move houses just to be inside catchment areas of good GS. They can't be all wrong - isn't it?

If a student can do equally well in comprehensive schools, why do people so make much sacrifice financially and emotionally?

Yes there is an element of snobbery from some parents. There is also, often, a misunderstanding of data, so people assume that because *on average* children at GS get higher results than children at comps, this must mean that their *own child* will do better at a GS than a comp. This isn't true. Children can do equally well in comps.

There are some parts of the country where good comps are so oversubscribed, and catchments so small, that many children can't get into them, and in those areas the schools that are left can slide somewhat. I had assumed that you were in that position and that was why you had ruled out your local schools.

However, it sounds like your local schools are good and you should look at them properly before ruling them out.

Don't be seduced by the idea that it's a GS or nothing. They're just schools - they can have good and weak teachers, well behaved and challenging children, and adequate or poor facilities.

Don't move house just to get into a GS. There is so much more to both selecting a school and choosing where to live than this.

[Amber]

Excellent post SM.

[Surferfish]

If a student can do equally well in comprehensive schools, why do people so make much sacrifice financially and emotionally?

Interesting article here by a headmaster of a well performing comprehensive which loses local children to a lesser performing grammar. As he says, for many parents its more about aspiration than education. Latin and rugby over DT and football.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... er-ability" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Guest55]

jxp - have you actually looked at the DfE performance tables? In particular you need to look at the prior attainment tab -

Denbigh High - 70/219 high KS2 attainers - GCSE attainment 8 is 65.4: 84% English and Maths grade 5

Cardinal Newman - 76/239 high KS2 attainers - GCSE attainment 8 is 63.6: 87% English and Maths grade 5

Icknield High - 82/274 high KS2 attainers - GCSE attainment 8 is 62.7: 74% English and Maths grade 5

That's just three of them for a start - these are not that different from a GS - certainly not worth uprooting yourself.

[jxp]

Well presumably you have done some research

Yes I have. Let's consider examples.

In my local comprehensive school:
GCSE Grade 5 or above Eng & Math 2017 = 38%
GCSE Grade 9-7 Eng & Math in 2017 = 19%

In a typical GS e.g. Tiffin Girls
GCSE Grade 5 or above Eng & Math 2017 = 99%
GCSE Grade 9-7 Eng & Math in 2017 = 85%

I see it as big gap!

Behaviour is a major problem in my local comprehensive schools e.g. drugs, knives etc. I'm more worried about this rather than quality of teaching.

[streathammum]

Of course there's an enormous gap!

Tiffin only admits from the top of the ability range - not sure precisely where the cut-off is, but let's say it's around the top 10% of ability.

The comp will admit children from 100% of the ability range. Of course it's going to have a wider range of outcomes. It doesn't mean your own child will do better at the GS, or that the GS has better teaching. It just means that the children who go to Tiffin have already shown that they are academically able.

You are right to look at issues such as drugs and behaviour. You are not right if you are assuming that there aren't any such problems in grammar schools.

[kenyancowgirl]

+1 streathammum

Although, with the drugs and behaviour issues, I would add that you are right to look at "proven" drugs and behaviour issues...not just hearsay amongst your friends, for example.... And also add that whilst the behaviours may give some concerns, more importantly is how a school deals with them. And I don't just mean by having a policy - there is a whole world of difference between saying you care pastorally for a child, for example, and actually doing it....

[Guest55]

Well presumably you have done some research

Yes I have. Let's consider examples.

In my local comprehensive school:
GCSE Grade 5 or above Eng & Math 2017 = 38%
GCSE Grade 9-7 Eng & Math in 2017 = 19%

In a typical GS e.g. Tiffin Girls
GCSE Grade 5 or above Eng & Math 2017 = 99%
GCSE Grade 9-7 Eng & Math in 2017 = 85%

I see it as big gap!

Behaviour is a major problem in my local comprehensive schools e.g. drugs, knives etc. I'm more worried about this rather than quality of teaching.

Did you actually read MY post directly above yours???

[anotherdad]

Well presumably you have done some research

Yes I have. Let's consider examples.

In my local comprehensive school:
GCSE Grade 5 or above Eng & Math 2017 = 38%
GCSE Grade 9-7 Eng & Math in 2017 = 19%

In a typical GS e.g. Tiffin Girls
GCSE Grade 5 or above Eng & Math 2017 = 99%
GCSE Grade 9-7 Eng & Math in 2017 = 85%

I see it as big gap!

Behaviour is a major problem in my local comprehensive schools e.g. drugs, knives etc. I'm more worried about this rather than quality of teaching.

It sounds as if you're set on a grammar school or independent school for your daughter and no amount of reference to data and rational explanation of the data is going to shift that. When the flaws in your comparison of results have been pointed out, you've jumped to drug and knife crime as justification for avoiding the comprehensive schools. In a few posts you've managed to malign almost the entire secondary provision in Luton as poorly performing and a hotbed of crime. No wonder you want to move .

I don't think there's anything I can say to disabuse you of your views so you're back to your dilemma of whether to spend a fortune moving house to gamble on a grammar school place, or gamble on being able to get into an independent school and avoid the cesspools that you believe the local state schools to be.

If you do your research carefully, you will discover that in some of Bucks' grammar schools there are problems with drugs, self-harming, mental health and all manner of concerns. In other words, a reflection of wider society. But perhaps that's acceptable because even their "worst performers" come out with good grades?