Maths for girls is the way to close the pay gap

[piggys]

And I would never subscribe to The Times seeing as it's owned by Murdoch, who foisted Page Three onto our society for decades...nothing like propping up the patriarchy, eh?

[Amber]

A lot of this comes from the home; we need to be telling our dds that they can do anything and that no job or profession is beyond their grasp.

When I was a teenager I was very political and listening to political music, going on marches and generally acting up. I fought sexism and I challenged it, often. Nowadays I see precious little room for this kind of thing and the charts are full of Barbie dolls with plastic/rubber/silicone airbrushed images. Are these the females we want our dds to aspire to?

Saying that 'maths is the way to close the gap' is a generalisation, IMO. My dd1 is a good linguist (and as about as likely to pursue maths after GCSE as I am to start voting Tory after a lifetime of being a leftie) so should that be a barrier to her success in later life?

The media is a pernicious influence here. Role models are key; so many teenagers watch 'reality tv' which projects an image of successful women as vacuous bubbleheads who never read a book in their lives and exist in a world of superficial egomania and self-worship, like the dreadful KK and Kanye. They follow them on twitter and instagram. Why? I'd rather my dds were Riot Grrls and followed Pu55y Riot.

Our young people should be more vocal, more political, more confrontational. Fight sexism. Knowledge is Power. The answer is more than maths.

Agree with all this. Parents are often their children's worst enemies and it starts young. I was chatting to my younger son the other day about the toys they had as children and all three of mine enjoyed the bricks and train tracks as equal first with cuddly toys which they dressed up and did role play with. Never occurred to me to buy gender specific toys. And as for the clothes! I remember having to search far and wide for pyjamas which didn't either have sparkly long-haired ponies and things on for DD or super-heroes for DSs. Not because of the gender thing specifically but I just think they look horrible. The kind of sloganised 'I am so cute/naughty' T shirts which apparently quite sensible parents paraded their toddlers around in always drove/drive me potty; and what about those ridiculous bows which parents of bald baby girls feel they need to fix onto their skulls?

As you say piggys, this is not about Maths, it is about society. I am convinced that a lot of the gender dysphoria we are seeing an apparent epidemic of is around the highly stereotyped and extreme versions of what a girl and a boy are 'supposed' to be. Girls who want to climb trees and get mucky and boys who like cuddly toys and gentle play are starting to wonder where they fit in, and in my view it is parents who should carry the can for a lot of this stuff. I was speaking to an expectant father recently who says if his child is a boy he will 'have to ' play rugby. No negotiations. Very sad.

[Catseye]

if his child is a boy he will 'have to ' play rugby. No negotiations. Very sad.

Nowt wrong with Rugby even for girls.

[Tinkers]

I remember one mother at dance lessons (yes my DD did dance, but it's because she wanted to, not me wanting her to ). Apparently the DD was actually quite talented at football, having kicked a ball about with her older brother and having to go to his football training etc. She, to quote her mum, was football mad. So when playing at football training one day and having a football coach approach the mum, saying, "I've been watching your DD play. She has a lot of natural talent. I'd like her to join one of my teams at xxxxx" the mum was horrified. "I don't want my daughter playing football, I want her doing girl things." A future England football player maybe, but we will never know.

My sister was in a library near her with my niece. Another little girl picked up a book on space. The mum said "you don't want that book, here's be about animal babies." My sister made a point of getting my niece to pick it up and look at it.

I go to careers fairs at schools from time to time, and I get two types of girls. Ones who not completely not interested in doing engineering, even if they are doing maths and science A levels, and those where I'm preaching to the converted. They've already decided that's what they want to do. Boys seem interested regardless, even if on speaking to them, they are completely unsuitable since they are actually better at non science subjects.

I did one at my DDs school 4 years ago. It's a girls school. We always try to send some women engineers to all careers fairs (as we've found girls won't even come close to the stand if it's just men) but this occasion, All three of us were female. One mum asked if we were all 'real' engineers, or just sent to 'look right'. I replied saying we only ever send engineers to careers fairs.

[Tinkers]

if his child is a boy he will 'have to ' play rugby. No negotiations. Very sad.

Nowt wrong with Rugby even for girls.

As the very recent Rugby World Cup has just shown. Mr Tinkers has enjoyed watching a number of games. (And not because they are women, but he is a complete rugby nut.)

I would have loved to play rugby as a girl. It just wasn't offered. Nearest I got was basketball. Anyone who says it's a non contact sport clearly has never played...

[piggys]

Agree with all the above. Good point about gender dysphoria Amber. IMO there is a crisis of identity gripping society (specifically our youth) which is only going to get worse as stereotypes become more and more extreme and pronounced. The more airbrushed and plastic and ubermale/uberfemale our icons become, the more people will opt out entirely by rejecting traditional notions of gender and even electing to be gender-neutral.

Who can blame them? I was unlucky enough to catch a few minutes of Celebrity BB the other week and every single female on there had had plastic surgery and looked like a p**n star. Every single one. All the males had huge biceps and six packs...........it actually made me feel a bit sick. If I was a youngster I'd want to reject all this too.

[Catseye]

We ahve a transgender teacher at my DD all girls school who "came out" recently, the Head Mistress announced in assembly that Mrs **** will be known as Mr yyyy ( or it could have been the other way round- I forget) and that was that -I reckon a big fuss with students and parents would have been made 20-30 years ago.

So, I am optimist that in fact we are moving in the right direction

[loobylou]

Absolutely agree wrt gender dysphoria. When must visible role models are so stereotyped into "girlie girls" or "macho laddish men" it's very difficult for those who are the opposite of those stereotypes but would normally be perfectly happy identifying with their gender.
One of my nephews has a boy and a girl and they are growing up so pigeon holed (ballet/rugby - and I have a dd who still does ballet at 14 and a D's on the rugby team so it's not the activities I disapprove of but the way they are used in this case) - I thoroughly enjoyed buying a fire engine jigsaw for the girl for her birthday (sad that that was an issue!)
Raising children who are content in their own skin and being who they want to be how they want to be is something so important. I'd consider my parenting a huge success if I just managed that!

[Tinkers]

This is an interesting article about gender.
https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/n ... e-genders/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It was on the diversity page on our company intranet, but I've heard of it before from a friend who is transgender.

Being someone who isn't and never was a particularly girly sort of girl (and after discussions with the aforementioned friend), I do think there's a difference between someone who really believes they are the wrong gender and those who just don't fit the normal mould for the gender we were born with. However I agree that the increasing pink/blue divide really doesn't help, and those who just don't fit the normal mould are now starting thinking they are the wrong gender more so, rather than just being a bit different.

As a mod, I obviously read a fair few more posts than most. There's quite a number of parents on here also guilty of the stereotyping from time to time too. 'That's boys for you' etc sort of statement appears a fair bit.

[Catseye]

Our DD is studying engineering, however every time things get a bit challenging for her, my wife asks why I let her study engineering instead of a subject more suitable for girls

Like what? Knitting !

It is wonderful that girls are getting into STEM subjects, our future depends on it even more so now, since the little englanders voted Brexit.