Difficult subject...
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The risk with information getting out tends to be more acute with VR and for those candidates who were likely to be on the borderline.
The Birmingham KE Grammer 11+ exam for example is now set by the Univ of Durham and the exam content varies from year to year. Some years they would set synonyms some years antonyms but for a good many years all of the words would start with the same letter of the alphabet. Typically they would have to answer 80 question in 10 mins.
A child who knew for example that the paper was going to include synonyms and that the words all began with the letter P would have a significant advantage. Just the short of information that a child would remember and would probably not worry about telling other children even if they were told not to do so by parents or teachers.
A few extra marks for children who are close to the pass mark can have a very significant advantage.
Unfortunately my experience with LEA investigations does not fill me with confidence, usually this takes the form of the LEA analysing the results to see if there are any ambiguities in the results or standardisation scores. You would need a lot of candidates to who were cheating to show any mark significance or variation in the median or std deviation in the scores.
Don't hold your breath about anything showing up in the LEA or police investigation
The Birmingham KE Grammer 11+ exam for example is now set by the Univ of Durham and the exam content varies from year to year. Some years they would set synonyms some years antonyms but for a good many years all of the words would start with the same letter of the alphabet. Typically they would have to answer 80 question in 10 mins.
A child who knew for example that the paper was going to include synonyms and that the words all began with the letter P would have a significant advantage. Just the short of information that a child would remember and would probably not worry about telling other children even if they were told not to do so by parents or teachers.
A few extra marks for children who are close to the pass mark can have a very significant advantage.
Unfortunately my experience with LEA investigations does not fill me with confidence, usually this takes the form of the LEA analysing the results to see if there are any ambiguities in the results or standardisation scores. You would need a lot of candidates to who were cheating to show any mark significance or variation in the median or std deviation in the scores.
Don't hold your breath about anything showing up in the LEA or police investigation
This forum has been a little quiet and I am assuming that parents are waiting to see the results - this is the quiet before the storm.Redbridge Council Please Take Note, or Lose Our Vote
Having read the comments on this forum and heard various accounts from concerned parents and third parties, I think it is important for the Redbridge Council (and I am not naming any names here but that may become necessary in a later post if there is no visible progress on this issue) to communicate the outcome of the police probe, and what conclusion/actions have been taken by the Council.
We live in a competitive society but we all know how people feel about athletes who have succeeded by taking steroids. In my opinion this situation is very similar. There are several issues surfacing here:
1. Failure of the Redbridge Council to release sufficient information in a timely manner under the Freedom of Information Act. This is a matter of concern to the public, and it is in the interest of the PUBLIC to know whether the tax-payers’ money spent on administering the 11+ exams is providing value for money; whether the exams are fair and equitable to all, and do not undermine the SATs assessments – which are the Government’s benchmark for educational achievement.
2. Given the allegations of cheating, why haven’t Redbridge Council consulted with local schools to calibrate and assess the results of the 11+ against the more extensive and longer-term trends of pupil achievements at school? Do they not hold the SATs as being a credible measure of aptitude and ability to work hard? Is so, then why are parents being urged to take the SATs so seriously? Surely, a Council that cannot afford to repair our potted roads can at least make some concrete effort to find greater efficiencies, equity and money savings in the 11+ system – which at present stands discredited and dubious.
3. Do the Leader of the Council and the Chief Executive understand that if the allegations of malpractice and misallocation of places has some justification, then we are setting a really bad example for our future generation? Moreover, we are depriving able and gifted pupils from securing a well-deserved place. That does nothing to ensure our future well-being as a community and economy, as those who may have secured their places unfairly will find the pace of learning difficult at the Grammar schools, and may eventually choose to drop out. That’s a wasted place and opportunity for someone more deserving! Surely, the objective and purpose of the 11+ exams must be to identify pupils who would be able to cope with a more rigorous academic curriculum.
4. Whilst I would not go as far as to suggest that we consider the outcome of the 2010 exams null and void, I’d say that if the Council does not openly communicate its findings and its plans on reforming the system of selection, then the 11+ will certainly lose its credibility further. And that will surely affect the reputation and standing of the two Grammar schools concerned.
I’d suggest to those parents who have grounds for concern on this topic post a reply on this forum, and forward the link below to other concerned parents.
Forum Link: http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... 660#166660
Also, if you feel that there should be a petition to solicit the wider opinion on this issue then please state your preference.
We live in a competitive society but we all know how people feel about athletes who have succeeded by taking steroids. In my opinion this situation is very similar. There are several issues surfacing here:
1. Failure of the Redbridge Council to release sufficient information in a timely manner under the Freedom of Information Act. This is a matter of concern to the public, and it is in the interest of the PUBLIC to know whether the tax-payers’ money spent on administering the 11+ exams is providing value for money; whether the exams are fair and equitable to all, and do not undermine the SATs assessments – which are the Government’s benchmark for educational achievement.
2. Given the allegations of cheating, why haven’t Redbridge Council consulted with local schools to calibrate and assess the results of the 11+ against the more extensive and longer-term trends of pupil achievements at school? Do they not hold the SATs as being a credible measure of aptitude and ability to work hard? Is so, then why are parents being urged to take the SATs so seriously? Surely, a Council that cannot afford to repair our potted roads can at least make some concrete effort to find greater efficiencies, equity and money savings in the 11+ system – which at present stands discredited and dubious.
3. Do the Leader of the Council and the Chief Executive understand that if the allegations of malpractice and misallocation of places has some justification, then we are setting a really bad example for our future generation? Moreover, we are depriving able and gifted pupils from securing a well-deserved place. That does nothing to ensure our future well-being as a community and economy, as those who may have secured their places unfairly will find the pace of learning difficult at the Grammar schools, and may eventually choose to drop out. That’s a wasted place and opportunity for someone more deserving! Surely, the objective and purpose of the 11+ exams must be to identify pupils who would be able to cope with a more rigorous academic curriculum.
4. Whilst I would not go as far as to suggest that we consider the outcome of the 2010 exams null and void, I’d say that if the Council does not openly communicate its findings and its plans on reforming the system of selection, then the 11+ will certainly lose its credibility further. And that will surely affect the reputation and standing of the two Grammar schools concerned.
I’d suggest to those parents who have grounds for concern on this topic post a reply on this forum, and forward the link below to other concerned parents.
Forum Link: http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... 660#166660
Also, if you feel that there should be a petition to solicit the wider opinion on this issue then please state your preference.
In the Ilford Recorder 4th March
"We have not had any evidence to suggest cheating took place and a review of the results indicates there is no change in the pattern of results this year compared to previous years"
So they have looked at previous years and come to the conclusion that nothing changed. Well what if this has been going on for a few years?
Like a previous poster said, it will be brushed under the carpet.
Full details should be available for all years with regards to results and appeals so the public can see exactly what is occuring with the system in Redbridge.
Certain facts need to be known.
1. Is it really true that the same paper is used for each of the 4 times this paper is taken?
2. What are the percentage averages of marks across the 4 test results aver the years. Are they statistically sound?
and
3. Details of all appeals statstics over the years.
Come on Redbridge Council we need a better effort than to be fobbed off with this! We want the numbers published!
For the public to be satisfied with this system there needs to be more transparency in the system.
"We have not had any evidence to suggest cheating took place and a review of the results indicates there is no change in the pattern of results this year compared to previous years"
So they have looked at previous years and come to the conclusion that nothing changed. Well what if this has been going on for a few years?
Like a previous poster said, it will be brushed under the carpet.
Full details should be available for all years with regards to results and appeals so the public can see exactly what is occuring with the system in Redbridge.
Certain facts need to be known.
1. Is it really true that the same paper is used for each of the 4 times this paper is taken?
2. What are the percentage averages of marks across the 4 test results aver the years. Are they statistically sound?
and
3. Details of all appeals statstics over the years.
Come on Redbridge Council we need a better effort than to be fobbed off with this! We want the numbers published!
For the public to be satisfied with this system there needs to be more transparency in the system.
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SilverHorse
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:02 pm
An acquaintance told me last year that it went on and had done so for several years so it would not show up in a statistical comparison. I would like to see the results for the Saturday and Sunday published to see if more children pass on a Sunday than on a Saturday.
I did not want DD to go to Woodford if she did not pass the test fairly on a Saturday (which she did) as I thought that she would struggle when she got there and it would be a bad experience for her.
I look forward to meeting some of you when we drop off our DDs at the gate.
I did not want DD to go to Woodford if she did not pass the test fairly on a Saturday (which she did) as I thought that she would struggle when she got there and it would be a bad experience for her.
I look forward to meeting some of you when we drop off our DDs at the gate.
Hi,
I have wrote with my concerns in earlier posts. My DD sat the exam on Saturday and passed she came 17 so I am very proud and pleased for her. She also passed Chelmsford, but DD wants to go to Woodford due to the distance, she is not an early riser so the whole coach catching would not have been for her.
She feels that this school will be right for her as she can travel on her own and I feel she thrives the independance at this stage. She also does karate, Life guard course and another language so she can continue with these activites after school.
I do hope she meets some nice girls and has a postive experience at school coupled with the new diet of learning.
I have wrote with my concerns in earlier posts. My DD sat the exam on Saturday and passed she came 17 so I am very proud and pleased for her. She also passed Chelmsford, but DD wants to go to Woodford due to the distance, she is not an early riser so the whole coach catching would not have been for her.
She feels that this school will be right for her as she can travel on her own and I feel she thrives the independance at this stage. She also does karate, Life guard course and another language so she can continue with these activites after school.
I do hope she meets some nice girls and has a postive experience at school coupled with the new diet of learning.
Re: Difficult subject...
SilverHorse, the results for Saturday and Sunday show a doubling of the percentage passing on Sunday when compared to Saturday according to reports in the national press.
The Daily Mail from 2nd January 2011 states that 'According to figures obtained by one parent through a Freedom of Information request, 29 per cent of the 365 boys and girls who took the exam on a Sunday in 2009 were successful. By contrast, only 14 per cent of 1,065 pupils passed on the Saturday.' I would think that to be statistically significant although the Redbridge Council said , according to the same article that ‘We were contacted by 20 families but none was able to provide evidence of cheating taking place. Although the allegations were not substantiated, in 2010 we moved to holding the 11-Plus test on a single day.’ Although the Council did respond by changing the procedure for 2010, I have not read of any children taking a retest.
The Daily Mail from 2nd January 2011 states that 'According to figures obtained by one parent through a Freedom of Information request, 29 per cent of the 365 boys and girls who took the exam on a Sunday in 2009 were successful. By contrast, only 14 per cent of 1,065 pupils passed on the Saturday.' I would think that to be statistically significant although the Redbridge Council said , according to the same article that ‘We were contacted by 20 families but none was able to provide evidence of cheating taking place. Although the allegations were not substantiated, in 2010 we moved to holding the 11-Plus test on a single day.’ Although the Council did respond by changing the procedure for 2010, I have not read of any children taking a retest.
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arrgee1991
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:57 pm
Re: Difficult subject...
What evidence could possibly convince them? The only way to resolve this situation is to ensure the poacher and the gamekeeper aren't the same authority.Sparrow wrote: ' 29 per cent of the 365 boys and girls who took the exam on a Sunday in 2009 were successful. By contrast, only 14 per cent of 1,065 pupils passed on the Saturday.'
‘We were contacted by 20 families but none was able to provide evidence of cheating taking place. Although the allegations were not substantiated, in 2010 we moved to holding the 11-Plus test on a single day.’